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Photo by Anna Rhody

Sarah Katherine Lawless is a New York City-based indie folk-pop singer-songwriter. According to Sarah Katherine, she wrote her first song at nine on a toy cassette recorder and taught herself guitar through writing rather than covers. Her style is built around unconventional voicings and expressive arrangements, something that goes hand-in-hand with her storytelling-forward body of work.

While her first EP, Look What I’m Learning! lamented on the growing pains of early adulthood and all of the “figuring out” that must be done, Sarah Katherine Lawless’ sophomore EP, Look Alive, is all about the aftermath. Look Alive is honest, presenting the feeling of realization and knowing, but also the stress of being hit with such sureness and simultaneously, having so little control of the future. 

Ahead of the release of Look Alive, we sat down with Sarah Katherine in Williamsburg. After 45-minutes of chatting about our favorite recent releases and what it’s like being an independent musician in NYC, we hit record, and got into the depth behind Look Alive, the importance of the visuals behind a project, and why Audrey Hobert rocks. 

OnesToWatch: Okay, the EP is called Look Alive. It's your sophomore EP. To start, give me the pitch for the EP itself, and then the second follow-up question I have is: do you feel like it's different from your previous work? If yes, how?

Sarah Katherine Lawless: I called it Look Alive because each song takes you through the feelings of finally knowing what you want and hoping all of it goes the way you want. Like, going after that artistic endeavor, and all of like the self-doubt, and the self-fatiguing that comes along, and also just like not knowing if you'll get to where you want to be in life. That was just so much of what was happening when I was writing it, and I kind of break the fourth wall in a way where I really ask the listeners: Do you like what you're seeing? Do you like what you're hearing? I kind of wanted it to be theatrical in that way. I feel like it's kind of a self-help way of feeling good about your art, and then for other people as they're listening, maybe it’s like their little best friend they can listen to when they’re feeling lost.

So compared to your first EP, do you feel like there's a change in your artistic direction? Do you feel like you're thinking about things in a different way?

Definitely. Well, the first one was called Look What I'm Learning!. That was all about learning how to be a person, how to love, how to do what I want, how to actually figure out what I want, and so that's why I really wanted it to be like, now that I've arrived, what are all the feelings that I'm going through, now that I've learned? That's why I really wanted it to be, Look What I'm Learning!, and now, Look Alive. The time has come. As for the direction and the difference from the EP, I really felt like I hadn't necessarily found myself. My first EP, I always like to say it is like freshman year of college: you're meeting people, you're like, "This is who I am, and this is everything I am,” and it's really fucking extreme. I knew I wanted to do indie-rock-pop stuff, I knew I wanted to do more tender elements, and maybe I wanted to do some electronics on it. I was trying everything, and while I love that, I feel like for this project I was able to kind of really figure that out for myself in a way that felt really authentic. What was really nice is I was able to work with three different producers, and they felt very cohesive in allowing that sound to really flourish. 

Did you produce it in New York? 

So two of the producers, Jake Aron and Jack Harrington were in New York, and they were such a joy to work with! Then I went to Nashville and recorded three songs with Isaiah Beard. Those songs are really near and dear to my heart, I really love them, and it was fun to go to Nashville. 

You have a few singles out already. What went into your decision-making behind how you wanted to introduce the project, and do you have a favorite of the singles? I have a favorite.

I'm so excited to hear your thoughts. Wait, what is your favorite?

“Personal Space & Prodigal Time.”

I love that one so much. That was when I was like, oh, I feel like I've done something different here. That doesn't feel like I was trying to be somebody. If that makes sense.

The lyricism of that song is just very clever; it feels very thought out. You can tell that your pen was on fire.

What's really funny is that I remember thinking about all that stuff very deeply, but if anything, it was the allowance for anything to come out, and just letting it be what it is. I always like to say it's like every thought I've ever had, and that was the pen. I just kept going, and I didn't really stop myself, which is, you know, for better or for worse. But I think in this case, for better. I'm glad that's your favorite. I really love that one. I'm so tangential. What was your initial question?

My initial question was about the singles that have come out. I guess, what went into your decision-making about which should be first?

Okay, so I love projects that release seasonally. Imagine if Brat came out during the winter; it would have been such a different thing. I feel like each of these singles genuinely feel like the month they were released in. I was thinking a lot about that, because when I listen to music, I'm usually walking down the street and I don't know, like main-character energy, romanticizing the world. I was kind of imagining, like, for each song, what season that would happen in, and that's kind of the way we went about it. 

I get that. I very much listen to music according to the season, like yes, it’s fall and I will be pulling out evermore. 

And folklore. Oh, those two albums are unreal. But yes, it’s that I was thinking about it seasonally, honestly. That's why it's really nice to listen to “Personal Space & Prodigal Time,” and I'm really excited for “Look Alive” and “Same Old Same Old” to come out because those feel very fall/winter to me. So yeah, that was kind of the decision-making. Really, just the weather. 

Do you have a favorite track?

I think my favorite single is “Personal Space & Prodigal Time”; they say save the best for last. But out of all of them, I really love “Same Old Same Old” actually, which is not out yet.

Thinking about your visuals behind the project, there are these stunning visualizers and photos. I know we talked about it earlier, but if you could just rehash what you were thinking about there.

Again, I think the visual world of a project is sometimes as important as the music. I didn't want it to be an afterthought. I wanted to really bring the listeners into the world that I was creating musically, visually. If I had all the money in the world, there's so much other shit that I would do. It was really me brainstorming with my photographer and friend, Anna Rhody, and we just didn't stop ourselves from dreaming. That sounds so cliché, but we just tried to figure out what we wanted and what felt right, and that also nodded to the craziness that we're going through in the world, but also the craziness that goes on in your mind when you're trying to chase your own dreams and what comes with that. I wouldn't have been able to do it without Anna. They are just an incredible creative. I think a lot of this project would not be what it is without the people who were a part of it. I think it's a very collaborative EP in that way.

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My next thoughts are about your show that's coming up, the EP release show. And there are potentially shows after that. How do you feel about performing the work? Is it different from how it felt recording it?

Oh my God, I'm excited, but honestly terrified in a way. I literally have a band rehearsal today, actually. Last night, I was going through every single stem from the project because I love what’s on the EP and I want to really make the show feel like the EP. I want the room to feel as alive as the EP feels, but not in a way that's like using tracks. So I'm going to have a clarinet and a lap steel, like different instruments to kind of mimic other instruments that were used in the EP. 

Do you play any of those? 

No, I fucking wish. I remember picking up a clarinet because I really wanted to play the saxophone. Did you ever do that in elementary school, where you had to do a band show? I picked up the clarinet, and it sounded like such shit. I was like, this was not meant for me. Anyways, yeah, I'm so scared, but I'm gonna rely on the incredible musicians that I have because I trust their ear so much. I'm also excited about the non-musical parts, like the interactive elements of the show. I love merch, and I love that it’s a big creative dump. Literally that's the fun stuff for me too. I love homemade merch, like the buttons that I showed you. Did you ever thrift as a kid and see like those big bins of little pin buttons? I want that at the merch table, for everyone to be able to sift through things. I wanted to find elements that felt really interactive and just have fun. I also hand made an Interactive Journal that guides you through the EP with fun questions, word searches, and more! That was a fun one to design! Last but certainly not least, I’m collaborating with Checkpoint Pictures. They're a little photo booth company, and it's literally a box; you press it, it takes your picture, and it prints it out on receipt paper. It's just like a fun little element. I love physical media.

You said you’re going to do CDs for Look Alive. Are you thinking about that packaging in a specific way? It feels like you’d be into that.

Yes! I'm so excited. I'm still working on finalizing it, but I actually found this designer (@odvinyl) through Instagram. They posted an Audrey Hobert vinyl mockup, and I was obsessed. I was like, "You know what? I wonder if they would design something for me,” so we've been working together. I'm obsessed. We're also working the vinyl too because I'm trying to do vinyl. It’s expensive though. 

I really love that you just saw this designer on your explore page, and you were like, "Let me contact this person who probably is just a fan.” Fan art is so important. 

That's so true. I feel like it's really coming back now too. There are so many cool designers, and that is one thing I love about Instagram, just seeing everybody else's work and being able to platform it without having a bunch of money behind it. There's so many people who are talented. I think it's a really cool way to kind of find things that are fresh and new, and often probably people who don't have all of these connections that some of the mainstream creative directors have.

I love that Audrey album.

What’s your favorite track on that?

“Chateau” or “Thirst Trap.”

I really like “Drive.” “Drive” is such a sleeper. And “Wet Hair!”

I actually met her in a restaurant on the Lower East Side last summer. I had been writing about “Bowling Alley” and was so geeked, I wasn’t going to say anything but she was right in front of me. I was just like whispering, “I love your album.” We had a whole conversation, she was so kind and cool. I also saw her show last week.

Was it the Cherry Lane Theater one? 

No, Brooklyn Paramount, which I really love. Cherry Lane is so cool, though, I wish.

I wanna get a ticket to that venue so badly. Speaking of visual imagery, their branding is very cool. 

Their matchboxes from their restaurant, Wild Cherry, look like little slot machines.

That's so smart. I just love shit like that. It's something that probably very few people actually appreciate, but something that creatives really do. The little details matter! 

Let’s get to the fun little questions. A lot of these I stole from others at OnesToWatch, shout out Abby and Giselle, my first is: If your music was a candle, what would it be? Maybe for the EP. 

I love the tongue-in-cheek candles that say a phrase, you know what I mean? In “Something's In The Air,” I say, “that shit reeks,” so I feel like that would be really funny. But I don't know. That's kind of bad because if it represents my music, I don't want to say that. Maybe something “get a whiff of it”. I feel like that could be fun. That's kind of cute. In “Look Alive” I say, “come an inch closer.” I feel like that's kind of fun, too. There’s this company LORE that has this perfume called “Somewhere but nowhere.” I love an oxymoron. I'm a big perfume person, so I feel like there would be an undertone of vanilla, maybe vetiver, something warm, maybe a hint of jasmine. I feel like there are tracks that feel really grounded and peaceful in a way. I think a little bit of matcha sounds good. But I think it would definitely be vanilla-y. I also love Santal, like a Palo Santo kind of situation. 

The second fun question is: If you were to put together your own Mount Rushmore, so four important figures of your choosing, who would you pick? Maybe thinking about your inspiration. 

I mean, I'll always put Madison Cunningham in there. Like she's just incredible. Samia, I’ve been loving her stuff. Rufus Wainwright, I love how his work feels. There's a certain drama to it that I feel carries into my EP. There's some moments that are a little theatrical, a little ironic. Fourth, I really love Julia Jacklin. Her art is incredible, and I'm just pretty obsessed with her. Yeah, I think that that would be the culmination for me. 

While we’re at it, do you have a top four albums?

That's a good question. It's really interesting because the way I listen to music, I'm a big repeat listener. Recently I've been getting much more into doing full albums. I mean, Revealer, Madison Cunningham. It's going to be a lot like the Rushmore, but that album is so fucking incredible. Lizzy McAlpine, Older (and Wiser). I specifically love the expansion. There's also this album that I really, really love, Margaret Glaspy. She feels very Madison Cunningham to me. I remember finding this album when I was walking around New York, and I popped into this one coffee shop, and they were playing the album from start to finish. Each time a song played, I was like, "Oh my god, I love this song!” It's called Emotions and Math. And then I will say, this is super pop, but Audrey Hobert’s Who's the Clown. I know we were just talking about it, but I cannot stop listening to that. She's so good. I don't even think she realizes how genius she is lyrically, it feels so natural to her.

My last question that I always ask everyone is because we're OnesToWatch, who are your OnesToWatch? Who should we be watching that we're not already?

Ava McCoy. Her music is literally incredible and she inspires me so much. Matilda Mann! I am utterly obsessed with everything she does, musically and visually! Maya Donovan, Ava is actually on tour with her, I saw her EP release show, and it was in a church. I actually cried twice. Also, Sofia D'Angelo and Evangeline Young, who are my openers for my EP release show, are literally just so freaking cool. 

Listen to Look Alive below: