Jersey Bound: Ben Jorgensen & Jesse Korman Detail New Armor For Sleep + New Jersey Roots [Q&A] | The Noise
Photos: Blair Todd
My Chemical Romance, Alexisonfire, Scary Kids Scaring Kids, The Juliana Theory, and now Armor For Sleep: What do they all have in common?
All of them were your Myspace profile song at one point in 2007? No, try again.
You made out with Alex Thomas during their sets at Warped Tour ‘05? Really, that’s like five different bands and like, a lot of making out...
Moving on. How about the fact that for the first time in what feels like forever, we have new music from all these scene staples in the same year. Yes, by now you should be familiar with My Chem’s “The Foundations of Decay,” Alexisonfire’s Otherness, Scary Kids Scaring Kids’ Out Of Light, and The Juliana Theory’s Still The Same Kids EP. And now, after fifteen years, it’s time to shift focus to Armor For Sleep’s newly announced, highly anticipated comeback LP The Rain Museum.
That’s right, following up 2007’s impactful release Smile For Them, Ben Jorgenson and co. are back with a brand new twelve-track record.
But that’s not all. Along with the exciting album news, the New Jersey natives have also debuted their moving new single “How Far Apart” via a stirring new music video directed by none other than The Number 12 Looks Like You frontman Jesse Korman.
Forming a friendship from their early days in the New Jersey DIY punk scene, Jorgenson and Korman recently linked back up through their respective endeavors in the film space – Jorgenson moved out to LA and worked on some short film projects while Korman has teamed up with notable actors like Katie Holmes to create Lafayette Pictures and more.
Sitting down with The Noise, the two industry vets discussed their new visual collaboration, the excitement they both still share for their music scene (especially hometown heroes My Chemical Romance), and, most importantly, Armor For Sleep’s forthcoming album.
To read the in-depth Q&A, be sure to look below. Afterward, make sure to pre-order The Rain Museum here before it’s released September 9th via Equal Vision Records.
So this is sort of a unique interview – Jesse, don’t want you to feel like a third wheel or anything while we talk about what Ben has going on.
JESSE KORMAN: Oh even if I was, I don’t care. I like being part of this or just even watching or observing.
BEN JORGENSON: I will just preempt this: I’m sure we’ll get into it further but like, Jesse was the first person to hear the [new] record which has been done for a little bit. And obviously, we did some music videos and we have another video to go. So, I think he is like, the most involved person aside from me in this whole project. But yeah, Jesse, sorry if we're just talking about other stuff.
JESSE: It's all good. I mean, I feel like I've been a part of it for so long that I'm like, “Oh yeah, yeah, that's correct. That's accurate.” [laughs]
Jesse, that must have been cool to be entrusted with that responsibility to be a sounding board for Ben and this whole project.
JESSE: Yeah, I mean I've been waiting for this day for a while. I mean, we’ve been friends forever -- I mean from like waay back. We did work together briefly on a little project, and then we sort of lost touch, and we met back up in this sort of cinema space. And then, [now] the band stuff. So, it sort of just came full circle. It's just been cool 'cause I feel like we've always sort of had such a good shorthand creatively that there wasn't like a “discovery process.” Like, we didn't have to be like, “Okay, so dude, tell me what you like.” It was just like we've been going at it for, I mean, well over a decade so it was easy to just jump in and be like, “Oh yeah, he's gonna like this” or he’ll send me something like, “Oh yeah, of course I love that” and it was just so fluid.
So Ben, the first new Armor For Sleep music in 15 years. How does it feel to finally be able to talk about it publicly?
BEN: It feels cool because of how much I care about the album and the place that it's coming from. I don't think I would have done another Armor record unless it was coming from a real place. Like, when we kind of ended things with the band, it was a big decision to make and I knew I wasn't just gonna start things up again for no reason. So, I have no doubts about standing behind this album and the whole vision for the whole project. So, it's cool. And you're honestly the first person we've talked to about any of this, so it still feels totally fresh and weird to be actually talking about it instead of just like working in the dark [laughs].
Well thank you for trusting us with this. So at what point did you realize you were writing a new Armor For Sleep record? Was this something you felt you needed to get off your chest or was it more spontaneous?
BEN: You know, just like anything, it was building for a really long time -- this record specifically. When the pandemic happened, a part of me was like, “Oh, you know what? This will be a great opportunity.” You know, everyone started having [their own] creative projects. People were doing jigsaw puzzles and knitting. I was like, "this is going to be the time for me to hunker down and work on this creative project.” I had the idea for The Rain Museum 15 years ago. It was going to be the follow-up to What To Do When You Are Dead, but because of a bunch of reasons, it didn't happen and I never got to make that record. So when the pandemic hit, I was like, “this will be my pandemic project.” So I started plugging along, and even though the rest of the guys in the band were in New Jersey and I was kind of on an island in LA, I just started working on it. So I just thought it was going to be like a normal record and then, unfortunately for me, my marriage of eight years -- like my relationship, my whole life -- completely fell apart. So, what would have just been like a jaunt down memory lane, in a way, I wound up changing the record and using it as an outlet for this really dark time that I was going through. I didn't want to change the album and switch gears and do something else so I kind of morphed these two things together -- like what I was going through personally, and also, I wanted to finish this album that I had wanted to see live for 15 years. So it was like redemption for me and a way for me to express what I was going through and I really think, without it, I don't know how I would have gotten through what was just a really messed up time in my life.
Yeah, well, I’m sorry to hear about all the things you went through and what it took to put this record together. The pandemic is one thing, and then everything else must have been truly difficult.
BEN: Thank you.
Jesse, when you first heard The Rain Musem after Ben sent it over and you heard all the emotion in the record, was your first response like, “Alright, I gotta check in and make sure he’s okay”? What were your initial thoughts?
BEN: [laughs] Yeah, Jesse.
JESSE: Uh, well, there was the first reaction to the first single and I think I actually stopped the song after the first chorus to text Ben being like, “Dude, you gotta be fucking kidding me!” I think it was like a rant just going like, “Oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. Dude, holy shit. Alright, let me finish this song. I'll text you right back” [laughs]. Then I continued [the song] and it was – Ben knows -- it was just like this instant “holy shit” moment. It was like, “Oh my fucking god.” Then I texted him about the lyrics like, “Dude, these fucking lyrics! So powerful, I'm feeling it.” There's just so much power and energy behind it. And for me, it's like, I may not be as involved in the music industry as I used to be -- I still have one foot in the door with Number 12 and all the other stuff that I'm doing – but I feel like I have a really nice, fresh perspective of music. So hearing this, it just felt like something that was sort of missing in the world -- just like something very sincere, something just like at 100. Not fake, not contrived, just powerful. I must have listened to it like 20 times, so I was like, “You gotta give me more” and then I think you did send me another song then I think you finally caved and gave me the album . . . I was just so excited and that sort of reaction is like the thing that I've always had since the beginning of when I was managing bands -- back to when I picked up Foxy Shazam and Bad Rabbits.
So Ben, for it being your first new music in 15 years, to have a reaction like that must have felt pretty good. But were you nervous sending it off beforehand knowing it’s been so long since you’ve written anything for Armor For Sleep?
BEN: Honestly, there are like literally four people in the world where their reaction to hearing a song is if I'll know if it's a success or a failure and I consider Jesse one of those four people. One of my other best friends in the world is Ryan Giblin. He's just someone that knows me and knows the band and I just play a song for him and I'll look in his eyes. Cause like, you can play a song for a friend, and they can look at you and be like “it's awesome” and you're like “oh he thinks it sucks and I suck.” So like, for me, I feel like I have nothing to prove. There's no fame to be gained here. It's a success if someone can feel some kind of emotional truth, and like, that's it. So that's my barometer for success. And it doesn't have to be for everyone, but like, if some people in the world can feel that from these songs, then that is success for me. So once Jesse felt it, I was like “Okay, I guess it is possible.” And Jesse was an important person to have felt it and it’s almost like that's all I really needed because I don't know everyone in the world. If someone is like “that sucks” or whatever, I can't determine whether or not that's a true reaction. But the people that I know and value their opinion, having them feel it to me is already like a success. And whatever else is going to happen is completely out of my control and I don't hold it against anyone if it's not their thing or if they don't feel it.
That’s a great outlook to have. So knowing there’s so much anticipation for new Armor For Sleep music, how hard was it to pick “How Far Apart” as the first single?
BEN: That's a really good question. I think for too long, with a couple of other situations, I think I didn't trust my instincts. For instance, like how I played “How Far Apart” for Jesse first and he really reacted to it -- and the other two songs that we’re doing videos for, Jesse also reacted to those too. I guess when we were having conversations about what the singles could be, you know, there were some differing opinions. But like, the fact that I reacted the most to those songs and someone like Jesse did too, that's just a matter of trusting my gut like, “I think those are the right songs to lead with.” And honestly, the way Jesse reacted to those three songs influenced me in wanting to make them the singles because I know that's the perspective Jesse is coming from too -- like what's the most real and what's the most connective emotionally. You know, Jesse’s not like, “Oh, this could be on MTV or whatever.” It's literally from a purely emotional perspective which is where I want to lead with.
So Jesse, you were picked to direct the music video for “How Far Apart.” When you got the call, were you just over the moon since you loved the song already?
JESSE: I could be wrong, but I don't even know if we ever had that conversation of like, “you want to do the video?” Cause like, Ben was obviously writing the album, doing his own thing with that and not anyone in the world knowing and I was doing music videos and movies. So I feel like, as he started [revealing] like, “Hey, I've got these songs” and we both knew I was doing music videos as well, I think it just sort of rolled into this very nonchalant like “Oh, the visuals are going to be so great, like imagine this.” It sort of started off with this tiny snowball and just turned into this avalanche and it just kept going. So I don't know if it ever was just like, “Hey, let's go,” it was more just like it organically started happening. Which I think, in my life, those turn out to be the best things I ever personally work on is when nothing’s contrived, everything is so natural and it all comes together. Then, I think eventually [the music video] just turned into like, “Alright, so I'm gonna shoot this. That's cool, right?” [laughs].
Ben, how would you compare working with a fellow artist on a music video in a visual medium versus say co-writing with someone musically?
BEN: Well, co-writing for me has never worked out but just working with Jesse is completely different than working with any other music video director. In the past, basically, the way we used to do things back in the day is like our management company would ask a bunch of directors to send their treatments in and they write up like a page thing about what the video is. And then you're like, “Yeah, I like this one -- number seven out of 10.” And then you go and they direct the video and you really don't have any conversation. But with Jesse, like he said, it was just a conversation for months about the whole album and it was really just a collaborative process about the vision for the whole record. So it's completely different than how we used to do it. I can't believe we used to do it the other way and I can't believe we used to entrust our music videos to someone who wrote something for 20 minutes and then you signed off on it and then you just showed up to set and they did what they did and then that's your video. Also, I just want to say, we talked to zero other directors about the potential for doing this. Like it was just a foregone conclusion that Jesse was going to do this.
JESSE: It was such a new experience even for me too 'cause it is such a creative collaboration whenever I work with anyone. But since Ben is also a prolific writer, it was extra fun because I don't really have someone to work with that much on the creative storyline/narrative process that much. Usually, it's me and my partner Jimmy sort of conceptualizing, doing the narrative, figuring out all the details. But with Ben, he's like, “alright, so here's the idea.” And I'm like, “Sick, let's put it in a room.”
BEN: [laughs]
JESSE: I mean there'd be times we'd sit on the phone for a minute in just dead silence -- just 'cause we're thinking -- and then it’d be like, “alright, check this out!” So it was like the true definition of a writers’ room, like a remote writers’ room. It was so fun to just dive in creatively. And Ben was with me on set every second of the whole day, all the days. So like, even when we're shooting a specific scene, it's nice to be able to go like, “Yo, I need to pick a color for this. Could you work with the art team to figure it out?” Usually, it's me, me, me, me, me. But like, having Ben sort of handle so much of the creative on the set was awesome.
BEN: You know it's funny. Jesse, on that note: I was just hanging out with my mom in New Jersey when I was back there shooting these videos and my mom was like, “So what's Jesse’s like thing? Like, what's his specialty?” And I'm like, “Well, you know, he knows the music world cause he was the frontman of a band. So he knows all the art of that. But he's also a photographer and knows film sets and directs his videos.” And my mom was like, “Oh so he's kind of like you.”
JESSE: [laughs]
BEN: You know, there's some people where it's like they're a guitar player -- they'll spend their whole life just learning guitar and that's their thing. And that's awesome. But I feel like, I don't know, for me, maybe it was like growing up in the DIY punk rock scene. Like, I wanted to book a show. So, in order to do that, I had to make the flyers, hand them out, book the bands, tell my mom to rent a PA. You know what I mean? It's more of like, being involved in the entire creative process and I think Jesse and I are similar like that.
Speaking of the DIY New Jersey scene, it's pretty infamous with all the bands that came out of that space playing basement shows with Thursday, My Chemical Romance, etc. However, when people think about New Jersey bands, Armor For Sleep and The Number 12 probably don’t come to mind together at least genre-wise.
JESSE: What are you talking about!? [laughs]
BEN: [laughs]
So how did your history together first start?
BEN: Um, yeah, I don't think Armor ever played with Number 12 ever. But, at the same time, back in the day that wouldn't surprise me at all if there were shows with like Armor and Number 12 and then a hardcore band and then a pop-punk band. Like, that was just normal. I think once everything started really blowing up in the scene and kind of that local Legion Hall scene went away a little bit, I think that's when maybe more of the divisions kind of took hold. But like, when Jesse and I were coming up, there was no real division and for some people, I think that actually drew them to the scene. That made me want to go to shows to be like, “Oh, I saw this weird ska band and then this hardcore band.” Like, “What's hardcore? I want to buy a 7-inch,” you know?
JESSE: And then the band Folly was created.
JESSE & BEN: [laughs]
JESSE: That's true, yeah, it was exactly that. It was just playing the Legion Hall and then there would just be every genre of music there like no joke. It was just insane.
BEN: Yeah, and also, I think there was one point in time where we shared our practice space where we used to rehearse in Jersey -- this is actually, probably how Jesse and I became friends.
JESSE: Yeah, that is how.
BEN: Yeah, so the room where Armor rehearsed in was next door to the room where Number 12 Looks Like You rehearsed in. And then down the hall was My Chemical Romance’s recording space and then I think Midtown used that room as well.
JESSE: Yeah, Midtown and Thursday.
BEN: And Thursday [laughs].
JESSE: So in Clifton, this place called The Streets, down one long hallway you have all of those bands. I remember when My Chem was filming their music video in their rehearsal space. And I was like, “What the fuck is all this?” I was like, “How are they shooting a whole music video in here?” It was so cool cause everyone utilized their spaces for so many things. And, you know, Armor was literally next door to us. So, while we're playing, when we would pause and do the next song, we'd hear them practicing and we'd be like “Oh man, I like that part. I like that.”
BEN & JESSE: [laughs]
JESSE: Then we’d sort of see each other in the hallways like, “Hey, what's up? That part sounds cool, man.” So that's how it sort of really started.
So then, for both of you, how does it feel in 2022 to have this New Jersey revival with bands like My Chemical Romance, The Juliana Theory, Midtown, and others back at it again? Must feel good to see your friends playing music again.
JESSE: I mean, for me, I talked about it with Dan from Equal Vision. It's like, this world of full circle is so common now it's like I'm not even surprised anymore. I think everyone had their proper break to do life and life happened. I mean for everyone. Like, everyone. I rarely know people who kept going straight continuing the path nonstop. I think everyone had proper life happen. And then, I think as we're maybe getting a bit older into our 30s and 40s, I know for me at least, it was like, “Well, it's now or never. This is my last hurrah.” And for me, I became completely content with my own being which made me feel like I wanted to go back to my first love and give it another go. And, apparently, everyone else is feeling the same in the world [laughs]. Not saying it’s the same process, but we're all coincidentally coming back.
Is that similar for you Ben?
BEN: Oh yeah, absolutely. It's been so cool specifically to see My Chem do what they're doing. I feel like the kind of downfall of emo was like a black eye for a lot of these bands that put in so many years of hard work. And I mean, My Chem are kind of like the poster child for emo and I think the whole “hot top-ification" of everything was just like... I mean, I haven't talked to them about it, but I would imagine it's a bummer for them because they all were scene kids and put in their dues and I think it was just kind of like a bummer when the whole scene fizzled out in such a weird way. So for them to come back and, I imagine they're playing bigger shows than they ever did when they were an active band, it just must be really rewarding for them to know that it wasn't all for nothing and that they meant a lot to people. So it's cool and also they're great guys. They're like some of the best dudes ever or a band with the best dudes in it ever so it's awesome to see that happen to them. I hope they made a new record or they're going to make a new record. I definitely do not have any knowledge about that, but I feel like their fans would just go insane if there was a new record. So yeah, that's what I'm hoping for.
Ben, did any of these bands reuniting help motivate you to be like, “yeah we can do this too”?
BEN: Um, maybe a little bit. But I mean, I think if anything, Dan from Equal Vision a couple years ago was like, “You guys should do a 15-year anniversary tour for What To Do When You Are Dead.” And I guess maybe he had his ear to the pulse or whatever more than I did, so I trusted him with that. But yeah, with this record at least, I know it's coming from a real place and not from like a, “Emo’s back! Let’s do a record!” You know what I mean? So based on what I was going through and where the world was, this record was going to happen even if emo was dead forever. So again, sometimes songs connect with people, sometimes albums connect with people and sometimes they don't. No one can predict that. So like, I'm confident with what I did and it was helpful to me and I hope it'll be helpful to some people. But like, whether it connects on a big level or not based on whether emo is back or whatever, [it’s] whatever. I'll be happy either way. It doesn't really matter to me.
It's pretty cool to still hear the excitement and passion you two have for the scene and other artists like My Chemical Romance. Because, essentially, that same excitement you have is what you two are creating for fans with your recent releases. People will be freaking out about new Armor For Sleep the same way you’d be excited about new My Chem.
JESSE: I mean, I think that’s the only reason why we’re here right now.
BEN: Yep.
JESSE: Like, I think if we were sort of a bit topical and just very surface level with everything like what would be our driving point? This is our driving point . . . This is why we are where we are – it’s the passion, and the power, and the excitement. And again, I think that's why a lot of the bands who have broken up and come back together -- I don't want to speak for everyone -- but I feel like maybe a lot of people sort of lost the flame. And, you know, when you're young and you've only known one way of life being a teenager touring the world and playing shows and writing albums and touring and playing shows and touring and writing albums... When you only know one life, what you crave is the party you can’t get into which is life. You’re like, “Man, I wonder what it’s like to not do this?” So you grow up, then you get into life and you’re like, “Life is pretty sick... but you know what would be cool? Let me try this [band] thing again” [laughs]. It’s that [itch] that never goes away. We’re always going to have that itch. And I think the real artists are just artists who have to create and have to have that outlet. It doesn’t go away, it’s always there.
Ben, do you agree with that?
BEN: Yeah, absolutely. That’s why I would love a new My Chem record. I hope they do it, I really do.
JESSE: I hope so too. I mean, there’s only so much you can listen to [with] Three Cheers and Black Parade and even the Eyeball release – the “Vampires” one. That was such a Jersey pride album, you know. That “Vampires” album, that's how Number 12, at least for me, got discovered on so many levels cause they were on the Eyeball sampler and Number 12 was as well. So people who were discovering My Chem also accidentally discovered this fucking grindcore band from New Jersey like, “what the fuck is this?” But like, we owe a lot to My Chem.
BEN: I remember Armor was going to Nada Studios in upstate New York, I think we were doing demos for Dream To Make Believe. And I remember pulling up to John D'clario’s house -- John was this producer there who worked out of his mom's basement -- and there were like three black sedans parked outside of his house. It was basically like older dudes, I don't know if they were wearing business suits, but they were industry dudes and I was like, “What the fuck is that?” And I walked in and My Chem were finishing up that album for Eyeball but there were already major label people literally trying to court them. And I remember that because that's before the My Chem craziness. That's before, like, Fall Out Boy and all these bands kind of crossed over into the mainstream. But like, in my head, that was the first moment where I was like, “Oh, something is happening” or like, “People think this scene has a lot of energy.”
JESSE: I actually messaged Mikey [Way] when they announced all their shows. I was like, “Yo dude, I’m gonna throw a Hail Mary: Number 12 and My Chem basement tour. What do you think?” [laughs]
BEN: [laughs]
JESSE: He actually said, he was like, “Dude, I swear to God, if COVID wasn’t a thing, that’s 1000% something we would do!” I was like “FUCK!” [laughs]
BEN: Fuckin COVID.
JESSE: Fuckin COVID ruining my chance at making it big time!
JESSE & BEN: [laughs]
